Present Tense with Bridgett Lindsey

Over the past year, we have all been heavily subjected to The Theatre of Corporate Response. Immediately after the murder of George Floyd, a country that was already deep in mourning and shock double drilled down further into levels of pain that have yet to be fully unpacked. For many, it was an awakening to a reality in America that they are typically spared. For some of us, it was a cruel reminder that - though the world may seem like it was collapsing - some things never change. And it was with that eye that many of us watched brands, small to global, issuing position statements on police brutality and the Black experience in America. And then we all sat and waited for the promised change that would follow these position statements, and many of us are still sitting, waiting.

We did see a spate of hiring across Diversity, Equity & Inclusion roles in corporate America, and a promise to engage with industry resources aimed at establishing channels for equity within an inarguably broken system. And to be sure, some companies have made advancements, interrogated their personnel decisions, tried to break their patterns… and others, like Old Navy, followed their February announcement joining Aurora James’ 15 Percent Pledge with the marketing of Juneteenth-themed merchandise that exposed extremely unethical behavior toward the Black influencers they had approached to help promote the product. 

But I also know a lot of business owners who are truly ready for change, but genuinely don’t know where to start, how to fix things, or what they’re doing wrong to begin with, but do know that the journey to enlightenment in this case is paved with an immeasurable level of pain and suffering of others, who do not have the luxury of time. 

Bridgett Lindsey is the Director of Human Resources at the Museum of Modern Art, but she has also been managing an independent consultancy for Leadership Development and Diversity, Equity, Inclusion and Anti-Racism for more than a decade. Bridgett is incredibly generous and compassionate, blunt and no-bullshit, and possesses a depth of abstract thought that I will aspire to for the rest of my life. I ask Bridgett to open Present Tense interviews because at a time when many are still feeling quite lost, she is a beacon pointing toward the future. Which is not to say she will help us see the end, but she is spectacularly capable of helping us see what is arguably more important: where to begin. Thank you Bridgett for your wisdom and your spirit. 

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Anja: Bridgett, you have been working in Human Resources for many years across press and fashion and art; industries that are known for being a bit retrograde when it comes to progressive practices. And beyond that, you have developed this DEIA curriculum for corporate education in creative industries. Can you tell me a little bit about your personal approach to this work?

Bridgett: I have led small and large matrix organizations through change and building infrastructure across diversified workforces, and the center of my focus has always been on the people in the organization and amplifying culture.  It is an ambitious goal, but through this lens I have been able to develop and execute programs that increase engagement internally and externally.  I am a lover of quotes and I am sure I will refer to several throughout this interview, but the one that I have always held as somewhat of a North Star when it comes to people and business is the Zig Ziglar quote “You don’t build a business. You build people, and then people build the business.”

Anja: DE&I can be a loaded issue, I think because at some point in the 80’s it fell into an “Education/Lawsuit Prevention” bucket, instead of an “Action” bucket, which is really where it belongs. How do you help clients shift out of the Education trap and into a position of Action?

Bridgett: First off, I ask the question that I think is ofttimes forgotten which is, “what is your end-game?”

Change is never about ticking a box, so what are you doing beyond that?  One has to be a bias-buster, changing systems, not just the people.  Diversity, Equity, Inclusion are all actionable words, but think about this: if you did a word search in one’s DEIA manual and each time you saw the word Diversity replaced it with Equity, what would your purpose be then?

I heard an industry colleague say, “I learned how to ‘know everything and selectively say nothing’”, and this really resonated with me.  As there is an explosion of hiring in the DEIA space, I have seen and heard of many talented DEIA leaders taking new roles... only to find out once in the role, they are in the position of being powerless.

Inclusive leadership requires commitment and a strategy. It takes a comprehensive plan, grounded in the assessment and development of key leadership traits and competencies, to foster inclusive leadership at the top of the organization which then can in turn inspire an inclusive mindset shift that can develop throughout an organization. Leaders have to be open, they have to have courage and be conscious and intentional.

Anja: Last summer you shared the Bus Driver “Active Listening” Exercise with me, which I have thought about approximately four times a day every day since. Partially because I am constantly reminding myself to listen actively, but also because it has made me realize how challenging that is with the sheer amount of information we are bombarded with these days by email, phone, the news and social media. And, circularly, that also re-emphasizes how much more important Active Listening is than ever before. 

Bridgett: I think being a parent amplifies your need for active listening, or moreso of your desire for it from your children!  I would say I spend a particular amount of time discussing communication in the workplace and when digging into how we are  (or are not) open to one another, I often refer to a quote by George Bernard Shaw which is, “The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.”   We don’t really think about communication, it is just something we do - too often we assume our words or messages are clear, but how they are conveyed and received relies on many factors.  Communication isn’t about writing or talking, it's about being understood.  In the exercise you mentioned, it’s the devil in the details.  Most miss the critical point of what I am reading - there is a lot of information given “noise” if you will, and the receiver might not tune out the noise, and therefore miss what I am saying or misunderstand the meaning.  With the constant in-flow of information, our brains have been rewired to operate on overdrive, thinking ahead to what our responses should be.  The challenge in this is that we’re often preparing for what we’re going to say next, active listening is about continuing the conversation while still remaining present.

Anja: Can you share any examples of any of the more granular but obviously ancillary issues standing in the way of truly diverse representation in the workplace, particularly in these creative industries like art and fashion where the barrier of entry is very relatively low education-wise but very high in terms of needing financial support to build a career? What missteps should businesses be wary of?

Bridgett: This is a very complex question and one not easily answered.  I would refer back to what I mentioned earlier about DEIA, which is that it is not about ticking a box - are you showing real commitment to doing the work?  Just because you hire a diverse candidate or a DEIA expert into your organization, that does not mean you have solved the problem or righted the ship.  There need to be building blocks, real conversations, strategies.  Think about your hiring practices: where are you pooling your talent?  Are you fishing in the same pond? Look around - are you hiring the same people just in different roles?  Are you hiring for ‘culture add’ or ‘culture fit’? ‘Culture fit’ sets out to hire and retain more of what is already working, preserving familiarity and “likemindedness”, while ‘culture add’ looks for people who value an organization's standards and culture, but also bring something different that positively contributes.

If you are doing outreach to diverse candidates, where does that outreach start?  What are the opportunities created for access at an early entry point whether it be Middle or High Schools? What is the programming around representation of your diverse population already in your workplace?

Anja: This might be too reductive a question, but are there points you center your People work around in order to always center a safe, progressive work environment for a diverse group of people? If we are triangulating equity, what are the vertices? 

Bridgett: So, this really isn’t triangulating equity, but looking at it within the idea of having good intent.  I have been leaning into the idea of the Platinum Rule and Psychological Reciprocity.  When we think of the Golden Rule, right - it’s “treat others how you would want to be treated”.  Many of us have grown up with this as a standard for being a good friend, a good colleague or partner, but this rule assumes a lot. For starters, it assumes that everyone you interact with wants to be treated in the same ways in which you want to be treated. This idea is rooted in the practice of normalizing our own experiences. We all do this to a certain degree, we think of our own perspective or experiences as normal and in return, we operate with that as the baseline of our assumptions. This means, we subconsciously see our experiences and ways of doing things as normal, or even right. And by making this assumption, we're also subconsciously thinking of anything different as not normal, or wrong. Because we're all different, our experiences, values, viewpoints, and preferences are also likely to be different. The Platinum Rule, however, requires a little more effort, it involves being observant, actively listening, caring enough to ask about preferences. When we over-rely on our preferences, we often miss giving others what they want, need or deserve.  By being open and lowering our assumptions and our own blindspots, we open the door for more diverse points of view.

Anja: What is your definition of Justice, from a business and from a personal perspective?

Bridgett: When I think of justice, the first thought that comes to mind is the woman figurine with the scales and the sword and the blindfold.  Growing up this was such a powerful piece of imagery for me, this woman standing there boldly denouncing the wrongs and supposedly bringing out the truth and righteousness.  But, as I have gotten older and experienced certain things, I don’t see that figure the same anymore.  Justice is not blind - or maybe it is blind but influenced and left in the hands of those with power.  Who exactly is tipping the scales?

Justice, for me, is accountability, whether in business or personal.  If you are bringing someone to justice, you are bringing them to accountability. There are oftentimes refusals of acknowledgement for wrongdoing or the continuance of practices that perpetuate wrongdoing… If we do not step forward, we will remain in the same place.

Bridgett Lindsey is a New York-based People and Culture Leader. If you would like to connect with her, you may find her here.